Harvey Lisle Interview

Harvey Lisle and Barbara M V Scott


In August 2008 we invited participants in the BDNOW! Biodynamics email discussion group to present questions we could put to Harvey Lisle. One of the grand old men of Biodynamics and author of The Enlivened Rock Powders [Acres USA], the seminal work on the uses of minerals to enhance soil fertility, Harvey Lisle is a first-rank dowser and, at 92 years of age, is an active and sought-after consultant for farmers and wine grape growers. Harvey was a member of the Biodynamic Association board of directors but says he has gone beyond Biodynamics to a more cosmic approach to composting, beekeeping and farming. He is a man of intelligence, great good humor and generosity.

Here are the questions and Harvey’s very lightly edited answers.

1) Donna LaPre: How do you characterize Ophiuchus – its signature as a constellation – and how are its impulses actually manifesting on Earth in our times? What qualities/gifts or dangers does it bring?

Harvey Lisle’s answer: I will tell you what I know about Ophiuchus, which is not very much. Ophiuchus means the Serpent Bearer. The people who named Ophiuchus the Serpent Bearer probably had a good reason but I don’t know that either.

I have a stone circle, a medicine wheel, with 12 stones, each stone representing a specific constellation. The stones are about ten feet apart. When I walk the circle each stone activates my dowsing rod telling me I have arrived at another constellation. My dowsing rod would always respond when I got between Scorpio and Sagittarius so I suspected there was a constellation there calling to me. It wasn’t until I got my 2006 Stella*Natura that I learned about Ophiuchus. And where do you find Ophiuchus—right along the ecliptic between Scorpio and Sagittarius.

High Spiritual Beings live on our constellations. The high Spiritual Beings on Ophiuchus were telling me that they counted, too. I am sure they contribute to our welfare but in what ways I don’t know.

I think a calendar system of 13 months makes more sense than our present 12 month calendar. 13 months of 28 days each equals 364 days. That way each month could represent a constellation and correspond to a moon month of 28 days. But I am just dreaming.

2) Allan Balliett: Where do your bright eyes come from and how do you keep them so bright? What insight do we have about Harvey’s own personal care program? What does he eat? Does he have a physical program? Does he meditate? He has the brightest eyes I’ve seen on anyone. Especially amazing at his age. My eyes were bright when I was pure macro. I haven’t been there for a long long time, bright eye-wise, that is. I thought it was wheat grass for Harvey but he told me he can’t stand the stuff!

Harvey Lisle’s answer: Allan’s question is a little embarrassing to me as I have to talk about my self, my life. But here goes anyhow. My old age is due in part to my genes. My mother lived to 101. My grandmother and great grandmother lived nearly to 100. I owe much of my life to my maternal side. I am oriented to women. I have 3 daughters-no sons. My daughters are now 58,60 and 62. They are in excellent health and should live to an old age . Two of them are biodynamic and one is organic. My mother was health minded so my boyhood days were lived in that environment. My wife was biodynamic. She was the one who got me into biodynamics. Yes, I do all of the right things,-not because I have to but because I like to. I don’t like smoking although I did smoke a little when I was in the army. I love good organic red wine but not to the point where it affects me. It is good for the heart. We hear a lot about food but not much about water. I want my water to be either spring water or well water so I have chosen to live most of my life in the country where I could have my own well water. RS tells us our hearts are spiritual organs. Well water and spring water carry spiritual forces which are good for my heart. Consequently, I have a strong heart. As for my bright eyes, I can’t look into my own eyes so I can’t vouch for them. But I do confess that some women do bring a twinkle to my eyes.”

3) Steve Diver: Harvey Lisle is known by his articles and book,
 so what I know from afar is that he’s quite the
 dowser, biodynamic practitioner, and user of paramagnetic rock dusts. 
Any further insights that he can share on the 
above would certainly be interesting. For example, I recall an article where he
 said he consumes a teaspoon or tablespoon of rock dust 
each day for human health. 

What does he think of the sea minerals now 
commonly available, whether solids or in liquid 
form, for human health and for soil mineralization…
in comparison to any particular rock dust source. 

Any current thoughts on use of paramagnetic
 rock dusts? 
Has he tried homeopathic preps and what does 
he think? 

Thoughts on the Field Broadcaster and related
 home-made devices for energy work?

Harvey Lisle’s answer: Barak Obama flip flops, John McCain flip flops and Harvey Lisle flip flops. It is true that many years ago I took the rock dust Paselite in my daily nutrition. I slowly became convinced that I really didn’t need it so I discontinued it. About the same time I learned about Celtic sea salt and started salting my food liberally with it. It made more sense since all the elements of the earth are in sea water except the gases. I am getting all the trace minerals plus silver and gold so how can I lose? Sea salt does require a special salt shaker which augers it out. I have also used sea salt from Baja California as a fertilizer.

Sea salt comes in crystalline form and I love crystals. I think crystals are the signatures of the Gods. They put their stamp of approval on their minerals. Since I am going to refer to crystals in answers to several other questions let me explain. This comes from Rudolf Steiner. As a human being we have an ego, astral body, etheric body and a physical body. Animals lack an ego but their ego is found in the spiritual world in higher beings. Plants lace both an ego and astral body but these are found in the spiritual world in higher beings. We say rocks are dead but how do you define dead? If we think on a cosmic scale, then rocks are not dead. They resonate with their counterparts in the spiritual world.

Field Broadcasters. I know them well since I “grew up” with them. Galen Hieronymus, the inventor, was in the signal corps of the U. S. Army in WWI. After the war he took his knowledge and experience to make the cosmic pipe. He had his little factory in Clayton Georgia, where he also put on annual seminars. I attended several of his seminars and subsequently bought to cosmic pipes at $1,000 each and a radionics instrument at $1,500. A few years later I gave the cosmic pipes away and threw the radionics instrument in the trash barrel. Galen died at an old age and Hugh Lovel took over with his Field Broadcaster. I think the Field Broadcaster sells for $1,500 but I didn’t throw any more of my money away. The Field Broadcaster is a more complex instrument than the cosmic pipe. I can’t go into all the details here. You can put Biodynamic preparations, rock powders, homeopathic preparations and all kinds of stuff in them to radiate out. They do work a little but for the average person they wouldn’t work at all. They are too complex. Hugh Lovel has left this country for Australia where he hopes to eventually become a citizen. His former partner, Loraine Cahill still makes and sells the Field Broadcasters.

Your best instrument is your mind. Learn how to use it and you can forget the other instruments. I am going to leave that subject for Barbara Scott.

4) Patti Pitcher: I am always curious to know what elders view as our job right now on the planet. Where is the most profitable place to put our energies?

I think global warming is the greatest threat to the health of our planet. Al Gore has consecrated his life to the reduction of that threat. We, as a national people, can urge our government to take the necessary steps. As individuals we also have to act. I believe in incarnation and expect to live many more lives in the future on this planet. This is a beautiful planet and I want it to stay that way, maybe becoming more beautiful in the future. I have bought some forest land in southeast Ohio and put it into a land trust. That land will not be lumbered or developed in any way for the next thousand years or longer. I support the Nature Conservancy, World Wildlife Fund, National Wildlife Foundation plus several other conservancy organizations who are working hard to keep our Earth beautiful.

5) Frank Egan: Would like to know his thoughts on the mineral magnetite ala
reportedly the highest paramagnetic reading of all minerals.

The formula for magnetite is FeO. Fe2O3. Magnetite has a proclivity to crystallize so now I am going to talk about crystals again. Iron is the metal of Mars so there are high spiritual beings on Mars who have stamped their signature on magnetite. Mgnetite carries their forces. Scientists are a peculiar lot of people who hate to admit they have no knowledge of certain phenomena. They never mention magnetism. Well, I don’t understand magnetism eigher but that is no problem for me. Magnetism is a characteristic of these high spiritual beings—so be it. I hae no problem with that.

The following discourse has no relationship to the question asked of me but it does involve crystals which is a subject dear to my heart. BD#501 involves quartz crystals and quartz crystals involve high spiritual beings who live and work from the sun. The instructions on making BD#501 as promulgated by those who are in leaving positions follow: Take a quartz crystal and smash it to smithereens. Then grind it to a dust. In so doing, the crystalline structure has been utterly destroyed and any influence from higher spiritual beings has been negated. Actually 501 should be the easiest preparation to make. Take sand from a quarry, place it in a cow horn, etc… What is more simple than that? You will end up with 501 which has the intended forces. Most sand and gravel quarries lie along a river or an ancient river which has changed course. The long time exposure of the sand to running water has made it into a paramagnetic sand. I have also made excellent 501 from sand gathered at a seashore where centuries of exposure to waves has implanted paramagnetic properties. I assume you know that most sand is a derivative of quartz.

6) Steven McFadden: When you listen to the earth now, what do you hear as The Call of The Land?

The answer to this question is similar to question number four. The Earth is a living entity. Our of our love we have given her a name, GAIA. She breaths, has a heartbeat, has nerves, has a circulatory system and probably other living systems which we haven’t discovered yet. GAIA asks for our love and our care. In turn she will give us a place to live in this great Universe. She will offer us her beauty, food and drink.

7) Ann West: How is the concept of food quality to be determined and how can the spiritual aspect of the human being be nourished, encouraged and catalyzed? In relationship to food? How to achieve the above with a (certifying) organization so this organization does not dilute down the original spiritual impulse and do themselves in, like the BD Association and other so called food security officials, maybe even Homeland Security themselves?

It is a little frustrating for me to tell you how to determine food quality if you can’t dowse. And I know most of you aren’t dowsers. I know from teaching hundreds of people how to dowse that 75-80 percent of you could dowse if someone gave you hands-on instruction. Dowsing is a spiritual activity. When you dowse you are working with the spiritual world. When I am dowsing food or water for quality, there are four forces I am interested in. I want to know the Earth Forces, the Sun Forces, the Zodiac Forces and the Universe Forces. Most food will manifest the Earth Forces and Sun Forces but the dowsing rods will tell you very clearly if the food was grown utilizing chemical fertilizers. Hydroponically-grown food fails the Earth Forces. Food grown under electric lights fails the Sun Forces. Mushrooms fail the Sun Forces but I do eat mushrooms occasionally. I was in Costa Rica a few years ago talking to some banana farmers. When I asked them whether they were chemical or organic, they replied a little indignantly that they were poor farmers and couldn’t afford the chemical fertilizers. They just planted the trees in their soil and let Nature take over. There is a lot of food raised in good soil with no fertilizers of any kind. For the most part food so grown passes my test and I don’t hesitate to eat it.

You didn’t mention water. In my thinking quality water is more important than quality food. The Earth, GAIA, is not a water planet for nothing. The most important forces there are come into us from the water we drink. Spring water, well water and rain water have these forces. Chlorination, softened, distilled, osmosis, heated water—all fail these forces. I like hot herbal teas which I do drink occasionally but for everyday health and well being I will drink my good well water.

There is not now nor will there ever be a certifying agent that can assure you that the food and water you consume meets the high standards you have set. Everyone is responsible for his/her own health and everyone is responsible for the safety of the food and water consumed.

9) Woody Wodraska: The Mayan “end date” of 2012 is just around the corner. What’s next?

The Michael Age started and will last for 350 years or until 2229. There are seven archangels who rotate their leadership. I have seen their names and the order of rotation but I do not remember them. Steiner was born in 1861 and was the earthly spokesman for Michael. Steiner’s influence as well as Michael’s should be strong at least until 2229. Another seer will take his place at that time. Hang around long enough and we will find out.

I have been in Belize and have seen the Mayan Calendar. I have been in the great pyramid of Giza and seen the time line. They both end in 2012, just four years from now. The Earth is not coming to an end. A new cycle will commence. Changes are already occurring leading up to 2012, so be of good faith. The spiritual world is working according to schedule and we should work with the spiritual world.

10) Steve Storch: Harvey taught me how to dowse at the first BD conference I went to at Balliett’s at Claymont Court. I read his book soon after that and those two things have added so much to my life and work and I am very grateful to him for that. He has always been open and honest in his opinions about different things biodynamic from preparation energy, placement of preps in the compost, stirring machines, tea brewers and so on… he has been to me an indispensable inspiration. My question to Harvey would be how has the knowledge you have gained over the years in biodynamics and subtle energy added to the course of your life and at what point do you think that this change occurred. How do you see biodynamics role in the near future for the earth and Man?

I can really sink my teeth into this question. Besides being a member of the Biodynamic Association I am also a member of the Anthroposophical Society of America. My wife and I joined the Anthroposophical Society about 1950 and the Biodynamic Association about 1955. The Biodynamic Association is a daughter movement of the Anthroposophical Society. Steiner started lecturing about 1900 but did not give the Agricultural Course until 1924. My wife [now deceased] and I owe a great debt to Rudolf Steiner and the Archangel Michael. This may be discouraging to newer members but it took me about 25 years to get a good handle on what Biodynamics is all about. At that point I started feeling comfortable with a few deviations I was making from what was written in the book. I notice that members who have been in Biodynamics a long time gradually come up with their own brand of Biodynamics. This is good. We should learn to think for ourselves. How are we going to evolve if we maintain the same pattern year after year?

I am not in a position to pass final judgment on the Biodynamic Association but I will pass my current judgment. It appears that we are spinning our wheels. We aren’t progressing. The Michael Age will come to an end in 2229, just 221 years away. I feel that the Biodynamic Association as we know it today will not survive to 2229. I am not a pessimist. I am an optimist. Something better will evolve to replace it. I hope this at least answers in part Storch’s question. This also comes to an end of the list of questions given to me by Barbara Scott and Woody Wodraska.

One more subject and then I will quit. I have found out that I can work consciously with the spiritual world. I ask them to do this or to do that and they do it. I ask them to bless my compost pile and it will radiate its forces for half a mile. I have asked them to bless a 2,900 acre forest and they have done it. I have asked them to bless a small mountain and they have done it. I am a beekeeper and have asked them to rid my hives of mites and that have done it. They never fail me. Of course I am very discrete and check my motives before I ask them to do something. I never ask them to do something for my personal gain. Will I ever make Biodynamic preparations again? Probably not. Why do I tell you all of this? What I can do, you can do. I am no superman. I am no saint. I love working with the Spiritual World. You can too.

Barbara has my paper “Cosmic Compost,” which I asked her to hand out to you when she gives this paper.

Harvey C. Lisle

Cosmic Compost Prayer

We start off by addressing the spiritual world and expressing our desire to make cosmic compost. We ask them one by one to help us in this endeavor and they do.

The first cosmic body we pray to for help is our own mother earth, Gaia, one with us who nurtures us. Then on to the planets near to the sun, Venus and Mercury to whom we pray for their help. This brings us to the sun to whom we pray for help. Then to the moon which reflects the sun light and we pray for its help. This brings us to the planets farther from the sun—Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. We pray to them for their help. Now out to the great Zodiac, which has been likened to a great womb. A constellation is a group of stars/suns which contribute certain qualities. The first constellation we visit is Aries, and then on to Taurus and Gemini; Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Ophiuchus, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces. We pray to each for its help. And finally we go out into the great universe ruled by our heavenly Father and ask for His help. At the end we qualify ourselves by stating our relationship as sons and daughters of God, as disciples of Christ, priests and priestesses in the Michaelic Order.

–Harvey Lisle